Dinesh Thakkar, chairman & managing director, Angel Broking

1. What is your job like?
My job is to advocate people
about the virtues of equities.
My main objective is to convert
savers into investors.
2. What does your secretary
think about you?
Few bosses have an accurate
perception of what their secretaries
think about them. To believe
they did would be delusionary.
3. What’s the smartest
business idea you have ever
had?
To create a company
called Angel Broking
that would cater to the
vast, untapped market of
potential retail investors.
A purpose achieved.
4. And the most
embarrassing?
Along with hits there are always
a few misses. Mistakes are
always part of a successful journey,
but none of them was embarrassing.
5. Who has been your biggest
influence?
Successful people who have
achieved a lot but who continue
to work passionately in pursuit
of greater goals.
6. How important is money to
you?
In a literal sense, it is important.
Ideologically, it’s a reinforcement
of your self-worth
and also a means to fulfill your
responsibility towards society
and family.
7. What is your most
important work ethic or
maxim that you practice every
day?
Never preach to others what
you yourself don’t do.
8. Has your personal life
suffered due to work?
No. I have realised that the
passage of time without work is
depressing. Also, those who
want to get in amongst the
ranks of successful people need
to work harder. For me, one day
a week is enough of a holiday
to recharge myself. Even my
family has got used to my style
of working.
9. How do you want to be
remembered by your
colleagues?
As a leader who sets worthy
examples. As a person who did
business with the right ethos; a
person who was aggressive in
his business but logical in his
thinking.
10. What are you working
hours?
An entrepreneur never stops
thinking about his business. He
is always ruminating over it.
This job is 24X7. Physically, I
come to my office at 11 am and
leave at 8 pm for gym as health
too is vital. An important motive
is that because experience
comes late in life, health is paramount
to capitalise on this experience.
11. What is the most valuable
memento in your office?
The memento I value most is
the people I work with. Some of
them have stayed with
me for a long time,
which has shown me
they believe in me. Respect
is something I
value highly. I have received
many awards
from the outside
world. The one I value most is
the award presented by our finance
minister Pranab Mukherjee
for best investors education.
12. Does retirement scare
you?
No. I believe a man has a
knack of turning a challenge on
its head. Also, if a person has assiduously
used his working life
well, his later life can be spent
in revelry. I believe I am improving
with the passage of the
time. I am eager to see what I
can do in my later life.
13. Have you been ever been
tempted to start out on your
own again?
The decision to launch Angel
set me on an entrepreneurial
mission that justified my vision
and brought me into a milieu of
good people, so the temptation
to start on my own has been
wholly vindicated.
14. What do you hate the most
at work?
I hate sycophants.
15. How do you unwind?
By hitting the gym, almost
daily during the week. I spend
weekends with my family.
As told to Yogini Joglekar

Nitin Bajaj, portfolio manager-equity, Fidelity International likes one-liners. You ask him about inflation, he says, "India is on QE55", on cement he says, "It goes between bricks and you never see it again" and on macro economics, "It is like a suitcase. The lining is the GDP but the stuff is in the suitcase." He manages over `1,000 crore equity assets.
 
What is your outlook for growth numbers after the recent disappointment with Index of Industrial Production (IIP) figures?
It will have a short-term impact, but the longer there isn't an investment in capex, more violent the capex cycle will be. The longer you don't invest, the more you will have to invest one day. So can it be that the next six-nine months is still slow? Maybe, I don't know. I have no clue. I don't try to forecast these things. I just know that the stocks which are linked into that supply chain are very cheap. This is all macro stuff, this is only 5% of what I do. I'm not a macro guy. Mujhe toh GDP ki definition bhi nahi pata yar (I don't even know the definition of GDP). People go eat in a restaurant and they say it is GDP. If I cook my own food and eat, they say it is not GDP. I don't even know what GDP means. And I don't think our finance minister knows what GDP means.
How would you define your investment style?
I work on stocks. Business by business, stock by stock. Why the company makes money? How the company makes money? What is the competitive advantage? How long is it sustainable? Where are the margins today versus history? What is the price I'm paying? That's what I do.
GDP is at the back of the mind. It is like a suitcase. The lining is the GDP but the stuff is in the suitcase.
I don't do macro and I'm not saying that the guys who do macro do anything wrong. The reason I don't do macro is that I have very little conviction in my ability to call macro. And the problem with macro investing is that you take one or two strong top-down views and everything you do is based on that.
If the macro views are right, fantastic, you're going to hit the jackpot. If the macro views are wrong, the whole portfolio is wrong. So I don't try to do that. I try to go the other way-what are the valuations? What are the good businesses and that is it.
Do you see a lot of value in the markets at current levels?
Yes, I do. I think people are very bearish which is very good, because when people are bearish the stock market is cheap. Can the markets fall more from here? I think it definitely can. But if you are taking a three-to-five year view, I think this is a fantastic time to enter the market. Now, people are pricing in margins falling, paying low multiples and starting to factor in slower GDP growth.
On an average, the market may not look very cheap, but this is because there is a certain part of the market which is made up of defensive growth companies which are extremely expensive. If you go into places which are more capex cycle driven, they are extremely, extremely cheap. You have to look very hard and you have to be very careful because there are a lot of bad balance sheets, managements and corporate governance practices. But within those I think there are a lot of hidden gems.
You mentioned further downside, what would you say is a fundamental issue that could affect the market?
The fundamental issues in India are always the same, such as the lack of sovereign governance in the country. Some of our analysts just went to Chakan which is a huge auto hub. Volkswagon has put `4,000 crore there and Bajaj has a huge factory. The whole ancillary business is located there.
But all the roads that lead to the place are broken. People are putting `10,000 crore in a place, give them good roads. It is an auto factory.
I read a newsletter the other day that said in China they say let's build it and they will come. And in India they say let's not build it and still they will come.
What is your view on midcaps? They seem to be beaten down quite a bit.
I see value in midcaps. They are cheaper at the moment. The discount on midcaps on valuations to largecaps at the moment is way more than historic average. Especially, if you go into construction and capital equipment, cement and things like that; they are quite reasonably priced.
What is the outlook on the cement sector?
It does not look very great but some of the stocks look cheap. You'll have to be patient. It is not going to work overnight. Right now, the situation looks very bad. But generally I like bad situations.
Cement has a lot of overcapacity issues.
That's why I'm saying the situation is dire. Demand is not good, supply has grown a lot. So it is tough. Cement is a local product, it doesn't travel. It can travel overseas but it can't travel inland because it has high volume, low value. So your freight cost will kill any other cost advantage. It is a pure commodity. You can call it Birla, Holcim, Ambuja or whatever you want. It is cement. It goes between bricks and you never see it again.
So it is about supply and demand. When supply exceeds demand, everyone is bearish and the stocks are cheap. That's good.
How long do you see that situation persisting?
If I knew the answer, I would be very rich. I don't try to time the market. If I find something cheap, I buy. If I buy cement, if I think the stocks are trading at 50% of their replacement value and I know that when times are good they will trade at 1.1-1.2 times replacement value, I know that from trough to peak, I will more than double my money. Even if it takes four years, I am happy. If it doubles in four years, then I made 20% per annum. That's a lot. And remember in stocks it is always tax free.
But it can be very painful when you are waiting. No one knows when it is going to start working. Two months from now, suddenly everything picks up and cement demand starts growing 10% year-on-year, suddenly cement stocks will start working. But can I time it, do I have the ability to say when exactly they will start working, I don't know. I just know that the margin of safety is there today. And it will not be there when they are doing well.
Which are the other sectors that maybe interesting?
Construction and capital goods.
Basically, the infrastructure related stocks.
Anything that goes into the capex cycle. Be it infrastructure, factories, buildings-commercial real estate; all of them are cheap now. Everything in the supply chain of these things is cheap right now.
What's expensive is things that are linked directly to the consumer or the supply chain of the guys who sell directly to the consumer. So consumption is doing very well, investment isn't. So I'd rather be in the investments.
Do you think there is room for more quantative easing (QE) in the United States?
What is QE? QE is printing of money right? We have been printing money for more than 50 years, so we are on QE 55. So that's why we have such high inflation. The US has just reached QE3.
Some people argue that if a lot of fund managers are doing a certain thing, say trying to pick stocks; eventually some of them will pick the right ones. In the context of value investing, how would you respond to that?
I don't respond. People are happy to have their beliefs. If you are in the shipping business, it is beautiful if the competition thinks that the world is flat. So I don't want to change anybody's views. I just feel comfortable buying stocks with a lot of margin of safety. It appeals to common sense and it seems to work. I have no problem with people believing that the markets are efficient and good for them.
Could you tell us of one of your investment ideas that worked, something that stands out for you?
When I joined Fidelity, I used to cover the food sector. There is this company called Numico. They used to make baby food as well as clinical nutrition, food for extremely sick people. Also they had a vitamins business which was a pure commodity and the company was in deep trouble because they bought all these vitamin companies and the pricing got decimated by the Chinese. They bought a retail chain in the US which didn't work out. So they were in great trouble.
But what they had were these two really beautiful businesses. Baby food and clinical nutrition which were extremely high growth, high profit, high barrier-to-entry businesses. But they were stuck with this balance sheet which had become levered because of investments in retail and in vitamins.
As the new management came, they sold the old businesses and raised some equity to clean up the balance sheet.
I think we got in at about 15 euros and got out at about 50 in a matter of four years.
Is there any catalyst that you will be watching when it comes to Indian markets?
I don't even think of these things. I come everyday, shut my door, read annual reports and talk to my analysts. I read industry reports and journals, talk to people and that is it.
At the end of the day, I go home and play with my son.

A a f ( amir Khan Productions, which lagged off with Lagaan completed a decade. And its last three films -Peepli Live (2010), Dhobi Ghat (2011) and now Delhi Belly -have come with an `A' certificate, sparking off speculation that actor-producer Aamir, known for his `clean family entertainers', has switched tracks. He denies it, arguing that a creative person should have the freedom to make the kind of films he believes in. “And I'm a responsible producer. If a film is meant for adults, it should be censored accordingly. Dhobi Ghat was passed with a `U/A' certificate despite a few expletives, but I didn't want parents to come with their eight year olds for it. So I got it re-censored with an `A' certificate knowing that I was reducing my audience by half, perhaps a first in Hindi cinema,“ Aamir informs.
On Delhi Belly, both the censors and he amicably agreed on an `A' certificate, with both parties not comfortable with kids under 18 viewing it.
“My son Junaid can see it but my daughter Ira will have to wait till she's 18,“ he says, pointing out that while other producers tuck away the `A' in a corner, the Delhi Belly print ads have `Adults Only' written prominently across.
The film has `potty' humour, explicit sex scenes, cuss words and a controversial chartbuster, `Bhaag DK Bose...', supposedly inspired by Dolly Bindra's `gaalis' on Bigg Boss. “Yeah it does,“ agrees Aamir, “but there's not that much of `potty', no skin show, some expletives and definitely no Dolly. I'm told she was on some show but I don't watch much TV.“
Imran, one of the lead actors, endorses that and says that within minutes of hearing the song, he knew it would be a “huge hit“ and spark off a “huge controversy“ too.
He reasons, “Anything associated with youth culture that is cool and new-wave has ignited protests, whether it was Elvis and his pelvic thrusts or rock music and its free-love mantra. I wasn't surprised by the attacks on Aamir and the film, but our youthful target audience has connected with the song and the film.“









Aamir Khan and Imran Khan on everything from mamu's best production to bhanja's first haircut, from the 26/7 deluge to item numbers. And sh*t happens!
Sh*t happens... Who came up with the tag line?
AAMIR: I did. Akshat (writer Akshat Verma) had come up with a couple too...
IMRAN: `Sometimes fate is a bad plate of chicken...' There was also a Delhi Belly graphic against a brown paper backdrop shaped like a stomach.
AAMIR: And one that went, `Orange juice+ chicken will Sh*t happened to me when Imran asked me to produce Jaane Tu... for him.
never taste the same again!' They were all funny and clever, but you need to see the film for them to make sense. On the poster, you need a tagline that connects with the audience instantly. A line that conveys something crazy happening out of the blue, outside of your control, and turning lives topsyturvy. And that's how `Sh*t happens' happened!' IMRAN: (Chuckles) I thought it was awesome but since I've started promoting Delhi Belly, I've had to field questions like, “To yeh sh*t kya hai? (So what's this sh*t?)“ When did `sh*t happen' to you?
AAMIR: (With a twinkle) When Imran came to me with Jaane Tu... Ya Jaane Na (2008) and told me, “Mamu, I want you to produce this film for me.“ IMRAN: I didn't come to you, you did! AAMIR: (Laughs) It was a joke! IMRAN: Actually, I called to ask you to introduce me to your producer, UTV.
AAMIR: (Surprised): UTV? IMRAN: Yeah, Rang De Basanti (2006) promos had just come out. After looking at them, Abbas (director Abbas Tyrewala) and I thought maybe they'd be interested in our script. (Grins) Mamu, you are losing your memory in your old age.
AAMIR: On a more serious note, I'd say sh*t happened to me during the deluge of July 26, 2005. I was in an office in Lower Parel, supposed to catch a flight that night. My bags were in the car. I drove towards the airport and was stuck on the road for seven hours.
IMRAN: My house is on Pali Hill and the water flows downhill. So though the phone lines were jammed and the cable TV went off, I had no idea till I read the papers the next day. Otherwise, sh*t happens everyday as I go out dousing all kinds of fires.
Would you say that the projected `cold war' with Ranbir Kapoor was one of them?
IMRAN: (Shrugs) That was just The most bizarre gossip? That I was married to Preity Zinta, a couple of years after DCH. a blimp on the radar. Ranbir watched Delhi Belly the other day. There's no cold war.
What about you, Aamir? What's the most bizarre gossip you've heard about yourself?
AAMIR: That I was married to Preity Zinta. This was when I was separated from Reena (his first wife). Dil Chahta Hai had come out in 2001.
This was a couple of years after that! Aamir, Akshat had tried in vain to get an appointment with you and finally left the script at home.
Had your wife Kiran (Rao) not picked this one up randomly and started reading, would Delhi Belly have been made?
AAMIR: I don't think so.
(Smiles) I guess that's another instance of `sh*t happens'.
Imran, what was your reaction to the script? Like Kiran, did you also laugh your guts out?
IMRAN: For me, it was a dream come true. I remember the first time I saw Guy Ritchie's 1998 movie, Lock Stock And Two Smoking Barrels. My first reaction was, “Oh sh*t, do they make movies like this too?“ After that, my best friend, Sahil and I watched My parents always gave me plenty of rope so I didn't need to hang myself.
the movie once a month. I wished I could be part of one such movie. But the tricky part is that it is an intrinsically London film. You can't take it out of there. Akshat has got the style and tone right and yet written an organic Indian story.
AAMIR: I enjoyed Lock Stock And Two Smoking Barrels, but it didn't have any `Oh sh*t!' moments for me.
IMRAN: It's a crime caper with blood and gore, people die...
And yet, it's still funny.
AAMIR: Our film is not that violent. But yes, it has the crime element and the humour.
Imran, what's the most rebellious thing you've ever done?
IMRAN: My parents always gave me plenty of rope so I didn't need to hang myself.
AAMIR: There were no rules for him to break. But Faisal, my sisters, Nikhat and Farhad, and I had lots set for us. No parties for the girls and that meant we'd say we wouldn't go either. And a midnight deadline.
IMRAN: That's pretty reasonable for back then.
AAMIR: (Laughs) The party was on the building's terrace.
IMRAN: My mom (Nuzhat) never let me ride a bike. The opportunity came up once.
But when I told the director that I didn't know how to drive one but could learn, he said, “There's no time, we'll change the script!“ AAMIR: Reena, Kiran and I have never put any restrictions on my kids, Junaid and Ira, who are very responsible. I only want to be in the loop about what is happening in their lives.
Aamir, your earliest memory of Imran?
AAMIR: Taking him for his first haircut. He was four, his mom was out of town. I told the barber to give him a clean shave. (Grins) He was sitting with his head down and only looked into the mirror after half his hair was gone. And instantly started crying, wouldn't stop! His head as smooth as an egg. Nuzhat returned after a few days and cried out, “What have you done to my boy?“ I told her I had got him a haircut! Imran, what's your earliest memory of mamu?
IMRAN: I was on this Mall Road set of Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander (1992) at Film City, in costume and make-up, ready to face the camera.
Mamu took one look at my garishly made-up face and said, “Terrible!“ He then wiped off all the paint and re-did the make-up himself.
Aamir you were supposed to do Kunal Kapoor's role in the film?
AAMIR: I wanted to, but couldn't afford to put on so much Imran has shown huge growth as an actor since Jaane Tu...
Ya Jaane Na. His best performance yet is in Delhi Belly.
weight and then lose it all.
IMRAN: I keep trying to imagine mamu in the role, but Kunal has inhabited it so well that it's difficult.
AAMIR: There's a Tom Cruise film in which he's unrecognisable. Fat, hairy producer...
IMRAN: Tropic Thunder! AAMIR: (Smiles) Now see if you can imagine me in Delhi Belly?
IMRAN: Tom breaks into a jig while the end credits are rolling. His film is winning Oscars and he does this hiphop dance... Hairy arms, pelvic thrusts and `ganda sa' (dirty) steps. Fantastic! Aamir has done an item number for Delhi Belly, enjoyed it?
AAMIR: Yeah, it was cool... I've done some weird stuff, but this was one of the weirdest. What's your favourite item song?
IMRAN: `Munni badnaam hui...'(Dabangg, 2010). Without humour, a song like that could turn sleazy.
AAMIR: `Choli ke peechey kya hai...' (Khal Nayak, 1993).
Aamir, what's the one thing about Imran that you envy?
AAMIR: His height, I wish I were taller.
IMRAN: I envy mamu's innate understanding of cinema. He can pick a random shot and tell you it would be better at this point in the story. Wow! I've done some weird stuff, but this song was the weirdest! Hairy arms, pelvic thrusts and `ganda sa' (dirty) steps...
How would you rate Aamir as a producer on a scale of 10?
IMRAN: A straight 10! Aamir, how would you rate Imran as an actor?
AAMIR: 8/10. I'm not generous with marks, but Imran has shown a huge growth as an actor since Jaane Tu... Ya Jaane Na. I see more ease and confidence now. And I'm hoping and assuming that the improvement goes beyond this, so I can give him those two extra points soon. His best act yet is in Delhi Belly.
IMRAN: And mamu's was 3 Idiots (2009).
And from the Aamir Khan Productions repertoire over the last decade, take your pick...
IMRAN: Taare Zameen Par (2007) (TZP). It was so real, stripped down to bare bones, while the other movies, whether Lagaan (2001) or Jaane Tu... Ya Jaane Na, had a sense of cinema. I guess it had to do with the fact that it was Darsheel (Safary) and not Aamir who was the hero, a little boy from a middleclass family.
AAMIR: I agree with Imran. All my films in a two decade-plus career have been creatively different, but TZP was the only one that changed lives across the country. It changed the way parents looked at their kids and how children perceived themselves. It altered the perception of the education system and the equation in a parentchild relationship.
IMRAN: I remember once I was at an airport when this guy came running up to me and told me that he'd heard I was an actor and related to Aamir Khan. When I confirmed this, he pulled out a bunch of paper napkins from his pocket.
AAMIR: Napkins?
IMRAN: Yeah, he said that Taare Zameen Par was his story so he had scribbled his thoughts on the film on the napkins in the form of a letter and wanted me to pass it on to you.
AAMIR: Where is it?
IMRAN: I passed it on to one of your assistants. Maybe it's in a pile somewhere.
AAMIR: Must search for it, we might just find another gem like Akshat's Delhi Belly script. Sh*t happens! Mamu's best act was 3 Idiots

 If you know about an event in the city, share it at ht.cafe@gmail.com SHOP Search Friday Lee offers upto 50 per cent discount on all menswear and women's wear, with offers like buy two and get two free on tops. At all Lee stores.
Saturday Rajesh Pratap Singh announces the beginning of their sale, ending on July 10. Rush to grab the best deal till the stocks last. At the Courtyard, Colaba.
Sunday Make-up brand Inglot launches offers MUST like buy three, get one free on their range of colour cosmetics. At the BUY stores at G7 Mall, Andheri and Infiniti Mall, Malad.
Monday Tribhovandas Bhimji Zaveri launches jewellery for men under the brand name The Gentlemen's Collection. Available in gold and diamonds under four categories -daily wear, formal wear, festival wear and club wear. At TBZ stores across the city.
Tuesday Puma sale offers customers up to 50 per cent off on jackets, sweatshirts, sneakers and more. Offer on till July 31 at all Puma exclusive outlets.
Wednesday Designer Kunal Rawal launches his monsoon collection of windcheaters with cotton jersey lining with zipper hoods and adjustable straps and flip-flops. At Kunal Rawal Studio, Juhu. EVENTS Search Friday MUST Catch comedians Rob Deering, Roger Monkhouse and Andre WATCH Vincent perform at The Comedy Store, Palladium, on July 1 and 3, at 8.30 pm. Call 43485000 Saturday Attend photo exhibition, Missing Compass, at the PL Deshpande Art Gallery, Prabhadevi. The stills displayed at the exhibition showcase a journey of cultures stumbled upon and memories of a road less travelled. On till July 12.
Sunday Akvarious Productions presents Super 8, a collection of eight compact contemporary comedies. At the Comedy Store, Palladium, at 6 pm. Entry: R 400. Call 43485000.
Monday Head to Café Goa, Linking Road, Bandra (West), for Monday Night Slam. Random audience members judge poets, as they compete against their peers for prize money and bragging rights for a month.
Wednesday Shailbhramar, a well-known mountaineering club from Mumbai is organising its 7th Mountaineering Film Festival. Submissions on for films, presentations and documentaries on mountaineering and nature to be screened at the festival. Call 09987099176 for details. ART Search Friday And it is Love, paintings by Poonam Agarwal are on display at Museum Art Gallery, Kala Ghoda.
Last two days left.
Saturday Magic Realism, an exhibition of tribal art from Madhya Pradesh is on display at Gallery Svenska, Andheri till July 31.
Sunday MUST Director Waman Kendre is launching his play in three languages on the SEE same day at NCPA Experimental Theatre. Watch the Marathi version ­ Priya Bawri at 2 pm, Hindi version ­ Mohe Piya at 4.30 pm and English version ­ O My Love at 7 pm.
Watch Arms and the Man, an English play by the Motley Theatre Group, directed by Naseeruddin Shah at 7 pm, Tata Theatre, Nariman Point.
Gujarati play Korat will premiere at 8 pm, Bhavans Auditorium, Chowpatty. It is the story of a layman living in Surat, who questions whether law is greater than humanity.
Monday A solo exhibition by Michelle Roy will be on display at The Art Loft, Bandra (W) till July 5.
Tuesday View works by TM Aziz, Babu Xavier and Ramesh Gorjala at Tulika Arts Gallery, Lower Parel till July 16. The paintings can also be viewed at www.tulikaartsgallery.com. FOOD Search Friday MUST Zenzi, Bandra introduces a delectable fare of sushi in their menu, also availEAT able in vegetarian, the dishes are priced between Rs 300 and Rs 400.
Call 022 66430670.
Saturday A website dealface.com introduces a special treat for all foodies in the form of special platters with oriental and continental delicacies. Log on and head to Cool Chef Café, Worli.
Sunday This Sunday, make sure you enjoy a lazy brunch at Blue Frog, with this delectable spread of continental dishes. An acoustic singer-songwriter makes sure your wine goes down right. Call 61585858 for reservations.
Monday If you have a sweet tooth, indulge in at this low-cost dessert café, Nashta Chai, with all desserts priced under R 60. Call 66158888.
Tuesday Sanchos, Khar introduces new Tacos. With options of corn or wheat flour shells, they are wholly served with salsa, lettuce and yummy re fried beans. Call 67094455.
Wednesday Souk, Taj Mahal Palace, Colaba is hosting a weeklong pita festival, called Pita Fil. Call 66653366. CLUBS Search Friday DJ Manjo performs at Aurus tonight. He'll spin across genres. Expect everything from beatbreak, house, dubstep to jazz.
Saturday Ma Faiza performs at Q night, to mark the second anniversary of Section 377, along with artistes from the LGBT community. At Blue Frog, Lower Parel. Entry R 500.
Sunday Keyboardist Abhijit Pohankar jazzes up the scene with his fusion band, Soundz of India. Catch him performing at Blue Frog, Lower Parel. Entry for R 300. Wednesday DJ Henson sets the roof on fire with his mix of popular dance hits at Gadda da Vida, Novotel, Juhu.
Thursday Frenchman Titi Robin launches his new album that features his collaboration with Indian artistes at Blue Frog, Lower Parel.
Friday Bonobo, Bandra presents bass-heavy night, Woble with DJ Uri, Breed Bass, Pravvy Prav and MC PRIT from UK. Dock now.